Jesus

[BlitzJoker]

if I must.................................

It wasn't a scientific theory, that's the point.

In their days it was, they couldn't exactly fly out to space, take a picture, and wire it back to earth now could they? See you can't hold the evidence needed to prove a theory back then to the same standards as today. They were not nearly as advanced.

Excuse me, but wasn't it zz who said that evolution is only a "theory" therefore we should give it as much credence as any other (scientific or not)?

Maybe you took it as he did, or maybe he really did? But I am not zz now am I?

I said it should not be given more credit.

It's a little pointless to say that because we assume that it is true because it is useful. For example, Newton's laws of motion turned out to be incomplete, but they were and still are useful for describing more common mechanics.
In fact, since evolution is supported by a torrent of evidence it would be surprising if any theory that were to replace it (if that were to happen) would be substantially different.

How is this even relevant, I said that we should not accept it as fact and know that the possibility of there being other theories that may prove to be more factual. I said nothing of discrediting it or not making use of the information we have discovered.

No, they're only conflicting if you believe in the literal interpretation of Genesis. One view is that God has guided the evolution process along, no?

The Bible doesn't say god guided the evolution process, these posts being based on the "literal interpretation", because it is what has been taught in the churches I have visited.

Ummm, sorry to burst your bubble, but creationism is not a scientific theory.

This is the one I said I might not be able to respond to, for I have limited knowledge of the origins of creationism and do not have enough to prove anything. So I can not argue this point.

[Kiz]

I never said one should treat a theory as false.  I said theories have the potential to be false.  So you have to be open to other potential ideas.  Theories are wonderful tools.  Take caution and make sure you don't call a theory fact.

Jeez, I've said "fact" once and now you're assaulting me with it. I guess I deserve it  .
So, yes, we have to be open to other potential ideas. I was just responding to your previous point that evolution is no better than any other theory. Hey, if you have a better theory that has more explanatory power than evolution and that is supported by evidence why not write a paper?

I didn't "claim there is no evidence for evolution".

Yes, you did:

And just so no one makes the foolish post saying, "but there is scientific evidence proving evolution." I must inform you that you are wrong.  Evolution is THEORY, and will most likely always remain as such.

But fossil records are incomplete.  You can't trace back exact lineages of fossils from parent to child proving that evolution occurred.

That is true. But you must agree that it would be some sort of giant coincidence if the many perserved fossils just HAPPENED to have a linear gradation over the course of millions of years.
Plus, we can observe speciation today so it is not so farfetched that there really was a gradual shift in genetic makeup.

[Kiz]

if I must.................................

In their days it was, they couldn't exactly fly out to space, take a picture, and wire it back to earth now could they? See you can't hold the evidence needed to prove a theory back then to the same standards as today. They were not nearly as advanced.

The reason it was not a scientific theory is because they had no evidence for it. And liquid falling of an orange is not equivalent to scientific evidence.
Sure, this was their sort of reasoning at the time, but is it a scientific theory? No.

Maybe you took it as he did, or maybe he really did? But I am not zz now am I?

I said it should not be given more credit.

I think I see where the confusion lies. I originally responded to zz's posts and then you responded to those. So any point I'm making is in response to zz's original assertions, not to what you may or may not believe.
And, it shouldn't receive more credit? Why do you say so? You have a better theory with corresponding evidence?

How is this even relevant, I said that we should not accept it as fact and know that the possibility of there being other theories that may prove to be more factual. I said nothing of discrediting it or not making use of the information we have discovered.

You said we shouldn't say it is true, but the point I was making is that we do assume it is true because it has an inherent usefulness as any good scientific theory does.

The Bible doesn't say god guided the evolution process, these posts being based on the "literal interpretation", because it is what has been taught in the churches I have visited.

I see. Anyway, I didn't mean for our discussion to tread on any theological implications.

[Bakster]

Blitzjoker:

Do not criticize that which you do not understand.

I forgot to mention I studied Religion since my very first day of school which is about 12 years. But I was probably asleep for half of those lessons

It was handwritten.....

It's pretty hard watching a person every second of every day whilst writing down what he is doing. That doesnt explain how it was published, or how it was preserved for some 2000 years.

[Bakster]

"What is the purpose of that passage? It's not like we can all perform magic tricks to help others."
To show how Jesus began his ministry.  We all got to start somewhere, the same thing is true about Jesus.

He continued to perform miracles in his later life: Feeding of the 5000, Walking on water etc. It's not like we can all perform magic tricks to help others.

"I am also making a claim that the majority of the other 5 billion people in the world are right"
Though they have hundreds of separate belief systems and ideas about the Other.  You can't justify Christianity being wrong, but every other single religion as right.  The fact is every person should have the option to make his or her own decision on faith.

I never said every other religion apart from Christianity was right. I don't know jack shit about other religions. Fine, people can believe what they want, I wasn't trying to "convert" anyone. I was just saying what I think of Christian beliefs.

[zzboots]

It's pretty hard watching a person every second of every day whilst writing down what he is doing. That doesnt explain how it was published, or how it was preserved for some 2000 years.

Other works such as the Iliad and the Odyssey have been preserved for thousands of years.  Hieroglyphics and other ancient writings have been preserved longer. Cave paintings even longer.  It's not some far fetched idea that a piece of writing survived over an extended period of time.

"I am also making a claim that the majority of the other 5 billion people in the world are right"

I never said every other religion apart from Christianity was right.

Am I missing something?

He continued to perform miracles in his later life: Feeding of the 5000, Walking on water etc. It's not like we can all perform magic tricks to help others.

You are missing the point of the bible.  And please stop using the phrase magic tricks.  The point is to demonstrate Jesus' actions in helping other people.  The means by which he did it are irrelevant.  It is supposed to inspire people to help those around the, with whatever means are able to do so.  I.E. Feeding the five thousand >> Go work at a soup kitchen feeding the poor.

[Bakster]

I am not very good at this whole arguing thing. Practice makes perfect

[Stitchy_11]

Jesus is real!!!! all you non-believers should watch the exorcism of emily rose and then ask yourself if there is even a remote chance that he does indeed exist. Not trying to say everyone should believe in God but, dont knock my religion and i wont knock your theories or beliefs!

[Parsley]

Jesus doesn't exist, but I wish I didn't know that.  Life would be so much easier if I could blame everything on a supreme being, rather than having to take responsibility for my own actions. 

Duelboard gets deeper everyday.

[zzboots]

Jesus doesn't exist

What do you mean by Jesus doesn't exist?  Roman historical records speak of his existance as a person here on earth.  Or are you trying to say something like he is not devine.  Please explain yourself?

[Bakster]

Well, there could be lots of people called Jesus back then

It might have been a popular name.

Anyway, even if Jesus did exist, he might not have been godly or whatever, it might just be an over the top story put in the bible to "confirm" people's belief of god.

If Jesus is so great, why doesn't he come down to Earth now and tell everyone not to sin. As far as I'm concerned, 2005 AD needs Jesus more than they did back then.

[zzboots]

Well, there could be lots of people called Jesus back then

It might have been a popular name.

Again logical issues...  Are you trying to argue since more than one person might have been named Jesus, then this disproves his existence?  The references say something along the lines of mentioning Christians who followed Jesus the Christ.  Could they make it any more specific?  I actually have a book where this is mentioned but it's upstairs and I am downstairs.

Anyway, even if Jesus did exist, he might not have been godly or whatever, it might just be an over the top story put in the bible to "confirm" people's belief of god.

Islam believes that St. Paul is the one who fabricated the story about Jesus' divinity.  I do not believe that you are a Muslim so I am forced to assume you simply do not believe in Jesus based on some unannounced reason.  Bible is not the right word you want to use.  The scripture of the Jewish people had been set for about 400 years.  The books and letters that would become the new testament were written in response to Jesus' life.  So the written story developed out of response to a man, not the other way around.

Putting confirm in quotations is very offensive and is a personal attack against anyone who holds any faith beliefs for any religion (including atheism).

If Jesus is so great, why doesn't he come down to Earth now and tell everyone not to sin. As far as I'm concerned, 2005 AD needs Jesus more than they did back then.

Do you really want Jesus to come back now?  The second coming of Jesus is said to be the end of the world, Judgement Day.  You do not understand the culture that Jesus was living in 2000 years ago.  People had a "tooth for a tooth, an eye for an eye" system of justice, women were basically treated as possessions, the homeless and downtrodden were ignored, polytheism and sin were everywhere.  There weren't any freedoms for the poor and no hope either.  Jesus came and provided a helping hand to everyone he came in contact with.  But Jesus' presence can still be felt today, in the actions of volunteers, the merciful, peacemakers, those people around us doing good.

If you want to have a serious discussion about religion thats fine.  But once again I have to ask you to show reverence towards all religious ideas.

[TheMcCool]

I think Jesus was cool. But most (not all, but most) of his followers are not cool. I will admit there are some really hot Christian girls though. Going to church can be a great way to meet chicks.

[Bakster]

I hate religion. But I still believe that God exists 

(That's not to say I believe God came down from heaven as Jesus blah blah blah)

[haferhole1]

i have a question 4 u guys

if we are all gods children, whats so special about jesus?