Egoists?

[AWS2]

That is fair...It is how football, basketball, baseball, and hockey all do their playoffs.  The better teams are rewarded by playing the worse teams...So it should go here.  The only other fair way to do it would be randomization.  Assign each player a number, put all those numbers in a hat, or on a computer, randomly select a number, which ever number comes up first, is the first in a bracket...example.

gUt:  1            cDig: 5
AWS: 2           parsley: 6
Blitz: 3            dodger: 7
matlu: 4          reg50: 8

I randomly draw out  of a hat and pick the numbers in this order.

3,7,4,1,8,6,5,2

so it would be like this:

Blitz vs. dodger
matlu vs. gUt
reg50 vs. parsley
cDig vs. AWS

That would also be a fair way.  This would solve the possible problem ZZ?  If someone not involved in the tournament did this?

[SiR gUt]

Exactly so when we get farther into the tournaments, more things will be arranged. ZZ i also asked you few months ago, if you wanted to help with tourneys, you said no. I will sit out for the tournaments for now on and moderate them, I will not participate anymore if it will make everyone happy.

And Dodger when you watch basketball or any other sport how are the pairings set up? same as I put them. You want to see a good match-up in the finals, instead of it being very boring. Not saying it will be, but thats why we have underdogs. Id rather see 2 of the best players vs in the finals then 2 of the non better players vs. If you are good enough to be in the tourney you better be good enough to beat the better players. so in reality it is very fair. You just have to try a lot harder to win.

[zzboots]

Thank you gut for agreeing to take the impressive authority role.  If you really want to play, perhaps someone else would be most gracious enough to step in and take that responsibility.  That way you can experience the joys of arraging and participating in them.

[SiR gUt]

No problem ZZ, I'm just trying to do what seems right. Anyway, like I said before, if anyone else is willing to help out, send me a PM.

[The_Gu3st]

Gut and the rest of Duelboard,

My apologies for my misunderstanding of the tournament match-ups. I thought i had read that somewhere or heard it from someone, once again, sorry.

I will sit out for the tournaments for now on and moderate them, I will not participate anymore if it will make everyone happy.

By saying this I realize it will start a few contraversies, but I cannot keep my mouth shut on this. Gut, I strongly disagree to that statement and I suggest you rethink your comment.

Let me explain something about this past tournament-

Tournament day- I was uber-excited, we were finally having our first real tournament, and we got 17 people to sign up!

Tournament Time- 12 showed. 1 quit half way.

New case scenario- Me, Gut, Tiras do not participate. This means given the same circumstance, 14 people sign up, 10 show.

Also, I do not see how Gut moderating the tournaments would solve anything in the idea of being biased. If this was the case and Gut was biased, he would clearly rule in favor of me and tiras everytime a problem came up.

So what difference would it make whether or not he played? I am not understanding the logic behind what Gut has proposed.

Also ZZ,

You mentioned something about disconnecting and multiple names.

Disconnecting- If anyone took time to read the rules, if you disconnect, tough luck, you lost the game.

Multiple names- Not only do i believe DB isn't big enough to have this, but Matlu has made it so that people from the same IP cannot play one another. I know what you're thinking, people have friends to do it for them. Personally, I love the idea that AWS2 proposed, that would solve this problem for the most part... then again, it could cause more. Nobody would know if we were or were not telling the truth when we matched tournaments up. This brings me to my next point...

Matlu,

I would appreciate if you yourself used AWS2's idea to make the tournament match-ups. It would not be too time consuming, 5-10 minutes max.

Also, I believe Gut posted in the tournament section for something regarding you and future tournaments. Please take those into consideration too.

And now, I will end my long, long, long post with these final words-

Now the only way to ensure nothing unfair was to happen would be to have the tournament calculations/outcome be completely automatic in the code. This is not going to happen, so the next best thing that could happen would be to have a neutral party doing those actions. The neutral party will not have any kind of favor towards either side if an argument was to happen. A quote from guest clearly supports this above statement:

Friends always stick with friends, whether or not they are correct.

Please explain what you meant by this, I didn't understand.

[tiraspol]

Tira even thought it was funny to solicate an overflow error on aim, and crash my computer a few times.

Oh yeah, thanks for reminding me. That sure was hellla fun. Just be careful that I dont do it again. Too bad my great custom version CD of Knoppix is lost =( then you would of been really screwed.

[zzboots]

Disconnecting- If anyone took time to read the rules, if you disconnect, tough luck, you lost the game.

Multiple names- Not only do i believe DB isn't big enough to have this, but Matlu has made it so that people from the same IP cannot play one another. I know what you're thinking, people have friends to do it for them. Personally, I love the idea that AWS2 proposed, that would solve this problem for the most part... then again, it could cause more. Nobody would know if we were or were not telling the truth when we matched tournaments up. This brings me to my next point...

I didn't mean disconnecting, I was going to explain it but then gut agreed to be impartial judge.  I meant server crashing.  Say a person is about to kill another person.  Before/After the person kills his opponent, the server crashes.  One person says that he won the game, and the other says it wasn't over.  This is just one possible question that may arise during the game.

Multiple names could mean a person playing two different opponents at the same time, not specifically him/herself.  An impartial judge would be able to determine if this was occurring.  But it wouldn't be that hard to use a proxy to play oneself if the person is so desperate to win.

Now the only way to ensure nothing unfair was to happen would be to have the tournament calculations/outcome be completely automatic in the code. This is not going to happen, so the next best thing that could happen would be to have a neutral party doing those actions. The neutral party will not have any kind of favor towards either side if an argument was to happen. A quote from guest clearly supports this above statement:

Friends always stick with friends, whether or not they are correct.

Blitz was saying that a person with a biased attitude will agree with his friends rather than making an objective decision.




Why are you so hesitant against an impartial judge Guest?  You and tira can still participate in the tournaments.  But someone has to take the responsibility of being MATURE enough to monitor the event.  It was explicitly stated when you volunteered to run the tournaments.  I have good faith that Gut will make a smashing good judge.

[The_Gu3st]

Server Crash is just something we will have to deal with in an unlikely event, it will probably cancel the tournament.

I said why I was opposed to it already... it does not make much of a difference if any. Of all people who should be the judge, it should not be gut. He won the last tourny for god's sake, he should be allowed to return.

I dont feel like reexplaining this, maybe some other time.

[zzboots]

I dont feel like reexplaining this, maybe some other time.

How about you explain for the first time, why you don't want an impartial judge? 

[SiR gUt]

let me say one thing. Guest you say that I would favor you and tiras if a problem came up. NO I would not, if you were right then of course i'd be on your side. If you were wrong sorry but I would have to go against you. Honestly I dont think we even need a judge to sit in the lobby, we have a whisper system that works, lets use it. I think I can monitor the tourneys fine, even with me playing aswell, I know I can and I have done it. It's not hard to do. If I can hold 2 jobs and go to school, it isnt very hard to play and keep track of whats going on. But if it will stop all this contraversy then so be it, I will sit out.

[The_Gu3st]

let me say one thing. Guest you say that I would favor you and tiras if a problem came up. NO I would not, if you were right then of course i'd be on your side. If you were wrong sorry but I would have to go against you.

I think this was misinterpreted. The point I was trying to make with that was what difference would it make if Gut was playing or if he was monitoring... he would still have the same mind and views... sooooooo if he felt in his mind that no matter what I say it will always be correct then he would always rule in favor of me whether or not he was playing.

I was NOT saying that Gut WOULD do this... just trying to make an example. Sorry for the confusion.

[Fleur De Chanson]

Also, I am not saying this is any way meant to be offensive or cocky, but after reading Song_Flowers post I just can't help but to say I told you so. Friends always stick with friends, whether or not they are correct.

i didnt say anything that wasnt correct... i said that in contests theres an unbiased referee... and thats a fact in pretty much any competition there is...i dont know why your so sure your correct... u've barely even givin a reason as to why your right... just that u dont think its necessary u think u guys did a fine job the way it is... well um thats just your opinion and opinions dont beat facts. i dont see why your so set against it... if u guys are indeed doing an honest job of running the tournaments then it really wouldnt affect u at all if sumone else not participating moderates them. all that'd do is insure the fairness of the tournaments.. u know what they say better safe then sorry.. cmon guest all the cool competitions are doing it! 

[The_Gu3st]

u've barely even givin a reason as to why your right... just that u dont think its necessary u think u guys did a fine job the way it is... well um thats just your opinion and opinions dont beat facts.

Let me state my reason once again-

If gut participated in the tournaments and he WAS biased, he would still favor his friends.

If gut moderated the tournaments and he WAS biased, he would still favor his friends.

I am NOT saying gut IS biased, only giving an example as to why it would NOT make a difference whether or not he played.

I do NOT understand why people do not understand this, it is quite simple logic.

And song, the fact of the matter is that we HAVE asked people if they are willing to moderate them, we are not opposed to it, but ZZ's main concept was not that we need and moderator, but rather that instead of the directors playing we should moderate.

Nothing that you said is fact by the way, everyone only has an opinion as to what is correct.

[The_Gu3st]

Also, to anybody who still disagrees, check out the poll. If you havn't voted yet, vote.

http://www.duelboard.com/forum/index.php/topic,544.0.html

[SiR gUt]

Exactly, and I am not biased at all. I will never favor someone because they are my friend, only if they were right. Second I am fine with having someone sit out in the lobby and watch, may be boring but if everyone wants it like that, then no problem.