Java

[BladeSabre]

I don't like using an IDE. I'm using the Sun compiler "javac" with the text editor "SciTE".

[matlu]

I don't like using an IDE. I'm using the Sun compiler "javac" with the text editor "SciTE".

If you still have this 350Mhz computer it's probably best solution. But as soon as you upgrade, you should definitelly switch to Eclipse.

[BladeSabre]

Why do you say that? (Oh yes, I use GNU Make too, to build my projects.)

Regarding Microsoft Java, is 1.1 only a Windows 98 thing, or did they never update it?

(Edited to add) Ok, a little bit of reasearch is the thing. Straight from Microsoft's web site:

Recognizing the need to provide a smooth transition for current users of the Microsoft® Java Virtual Machine (MSJVM), Sun Microsystems and Microsoft have agreed to extend Microsoft's license to use Sun's Java source code and compatibility test suites. This extension allows Microsoft to support the MSJVM until December 31, 2007, providing customers with the ability to transition from the MSJVM on a schedule and plan that is most effective for them.

The MSJVM will reach its end of life on December 31, 2007. Customers are encouraged to take proactive measures to stay informed about obsolete software and move away from the MSJVM in a timely fashion. The MSJVM is no longer available for distribution from Microsoft and there will be no enhancements to the MSJVM. Microsoft products and SKUs currently including the MSJVM will continue to be retired or replaced by versions not containing the MSJVM on a schedule to be announced.

[matlu]

Why do you say that? (Oh yes, I use GNU Make too, to build my projects.)

Blade, that is without discussion. I don't know how to explain it. It has many features which will make your programming MUCH more easier and MUCH more effective. I'm serious.

It is a TOOL, and people make tools to get things easier. You are trying to dig a hole for swimming pool with your hands and one shovel, while there is big-machine-I-don't-know-how-it's-called  standing next to you for free.

Regarding Microsoft Java, is 1.1 only a Windows 98 thing, or did they never update it?

never updated. If you want to install it, I can upload it somewhere it's 5mb. It has no problem to live in peace together with sun's java, you can anytime switch which one you wish to use. (And runescape will run bit faster)

[BladeSabre]

I recall at university they said that for making windowed applications it's helpful to have one of the tools that writes most of your user interface code for you. (Though they wanted us to learn how to do it by hand first, for the sake of our education. They started us off on javac and Emacs on Linux, and said that we should stick to that for one full term, and then we could switch to whatever we liked once we had the groundwork down solid and began to feel the need for better tools.) Similarly, one of the reasons I am reluctant to develop for 1.1 is that learning obsolete techniques might interfere with my course.

I used the Dev-C++ IDE when I started developing in C (it's supposed to be good for beginners) and I hated it. Then I found out that I could run GCC/MinGW from the command line, and use a separate text editor, and I felt so much more free with it, it was just so much easier to understand. And Make was the finishing touch, when my projects started to get bigger than one source file.

If you've got the installer for MSJVM then I would appreciate a copy of that - it would be nice to get RS behaving properly again. I don't suppose the folk here would let me intall it on the good computer, but RS worked fine on the 450Mhz machine until someone upgraded the Java on IE. We had Mozilla for that...
(It's a good thing to have a copy of in storage anyway.)

[matlu]

www.duelboard.com/getjava 

[BladeSabre]

Thanks.

I found the Sun JDK 1.2 on their web site after much wandering back and forth, and it does compile back to 1.1. If I decided to develop for 1.1 though, I'd have to give up a number of the things I've already learned, and learn the old ways instead. And as in the passage I quoted, MSJVM is dying. It is no longer supplied in any of Microsoft's new software, and it's not available on their website. So in a couple more years it will be gone from this world. Maybe I can wait.

And I downloaded Eclipse. I'll give it a try at some point, and see what I think.

[BladeSabre]

Well, I found myself somewhat disheartened by this, even though there's little reason to be. I've got a book about Java 1.1 that my brother bought from a junk sale for 1% of its published price, and it would probably benefit me to work through it. And I can still develop games using Java 1.4, because the world will catch up in a couple of years. I just have this dreadful need to show things to people

Anyway, it's very nice to have RS working properly again. Eclipse isn't working, however, and I've looked into the "known issues" and they don't seem to help. I don't think it really matters until I'm looking at "bigger" projects though.

What was that book about game programming, which you mentioned on some other thread? I might look into it.

[matlu]

What was that book about game programming, which you mentioned on some other thread? I might look into it.

the one I mentioned was "Black art of java game programming", though it's sure quite outdated. There exist many similar newer books, just try to search for keywords like "java", "game", "programming", "book" and you will find plenty of them

Eclipse isn't working, however, and I've looked into the "known issues" and they don't seem to help.

that's really strange. I guess it needs java 1.4 installed (not sure but probably it asks for it during instalation), but I think you have it. Don't know, I never had problem with making it running.

[BladeSabre]

After some research, it looks to me like that one is probably the best available. (And it still comes up first on Google .)

"Cutting-Edge Java Game Programming" has been said to be good for experienced people, but it's probably too advanced for me at the moment.